Re: My little lot

[grogg]

Thanks very much guys, so the list of contenders is:-

Electra Phoenix with an S/S/S

Westone Concord and the relevant Spectrum models,

Vantage Avenger AV325 and the 315

APII ST500.....
Aria Pro II RS Deluxe-V

That should keep me busy.
What about the 3 pup version of the the Poole Corsair? I like the idea of having a h/b on the bridge and theres one of these on ebay UK at present.
I really like the sound of the centre pup on the strat and it doesnt get in the way for me cos I rarely use a pick, only when my nails have snapped yet again.

[anaerobe]

Grogg,

I forgot to add that the APII RS line came in various iterations through the early 80's, including s/s/s, s/s/h, etc. I like the former, just because the single coil pups are so nice, but a humbucker on the bridge is probably never a bad thing, especially when you are given the option to split the signal.

The take home message is that your search can be expanded to look at all RS models of that vintage, and go from there. These may command less $$ than the earlier stuff.

Nonetheless, earlier instruments (late 70's) that would be nice to get your hands on are the APII ST line, as mentioned above... big thumbs up for these.

My 0.02.

Ian

[nasticanasta]

Wow!! I love the Session II and the Prestige in the 2nd picture.....not to mention the old Vox behind them what is that??
David (nasticanasta)

[grogg]

The Vox is an AC30.
More interesting is the combo on top, a Bird "Golden Eagle" from the early 60s, British made. It had been sitting in a mates garage for the last 15 years or so, so I fixed it up for him, had to replace virtually every component but not the valves.
Only thing I cant fix without major mods is the reverb, this relies on crystal cartridge pickups which you cant buy anymore so if anyones got a couple knocking about let me know.

[corsair]

this relies on crystal cartridge pickups which you cant buy anymore so if anyones got a couple knocking about let me know.

I know this is not a reverb forum, but could you explain what that means; reverb intrigues me - my main gig amp is an old 100W combo with a spring tank on it the size of Texas.... thanks man; amp stuff frightens the bejabbers out of me - I think I'm allergic to current!! - and have never really been into restoring/fixing amplifiers!!

[grogg]

Oh blimey, what've I got myself into?
Record players use a needle that sits in the groove of the record, the needle feeds into a cartridge. The tiny indentations in the grooves of the record cause the needle to move. The early cartridges used crystal pickups which operated on a piezo-electric principle i.e. materials that if they get mechanically pressed/vibrated produce a voltage.

Later on ie 40+years ago inductive pickups/cartidges became the norm because they could produce better fidelity. Crystal cartridges also didnt last, for these reasons you cant buy them anymore and tbh if I did find any they would probably be ffd.

Hows that fit in with reverb?
Well reverb is about creating the feeling of space ie you make a sound in a room and it bounces off a wall and the sound comes back at you. The room is too small for echo just a bit of a ring there. Reverb in amps tries to recreate this but of course also exagerates this effect. How? In older amps this is done by sending part of the amplified guitar signal into a mechanical spring arrangement and then picking up its reverberations with something like the cartridges I waffled on about above. This is then mixed in with the original guitar signal.
This is what youve got in your amp, give it a kick and you will get thunder and lightning. Modern amps do it digitally rather than mechanically so give them a kick and hurt your toe.

Hope that makes sense.

[nasticanasta]

hehe....Ahh yes the old spring reverbs.... growing up in my neighborhood we all played some instrument...you couldn't hang with us if you didn't like The Rolling Stones.. and The Stranglers, who had a song called "Tank" and in that song the guitarist Hugh Cornwell would kick his amp make that "thunder" sound, lol we loved it, of course we would do it too.

Oh blimey, what've I got myself into?
Record players use a needle that sits in the groove of the record, the needle feeds into a cartridge. The tiny indentations in the grooves of the record cause the needle to move. The early cartridges used crystal pickups which operated on a piezo-electric principle i.e. materials that if they get mechanically pressed/vibrated produce a voltage.

Later on ie 40+years ago inductive pickups/cartidges became the norm because they could produce better fidelity. Crystal cartridges also didnt last, for these reasons you cant buy them anymore and tbh if I did find any they would probably be ffd.

Hows that fit in with reverb?
Well reverb is about creating the feeling of space ie you make a sound in a room and it bounces off a wall and the sound comes back at you. The room is too small for echo just a bit of a ring there. Reverb in amps tries to recreate this but of course also exagerates this effect. How? In older amps this is done by sending part of the amplified guitar signal into a mechanical spring arrangement and then picking up its reverberations with something like the cartridges I waffled on about above. This is then mixed in with the original guitar signal.
This is what youve got in your amp, give it a kick and you will get thunder and lightning. Modern amps do it digitally rather than mechanically so give them a kick and hurt your toe.

Hope that makes sense.
Thorn help me out here.

[Barry]

...give it a kick and you will get thunder and lightning...

Love doing that with my 1965 Danelectro DM25! Sounds like 7.2 on the Richter scale!

[corsair]

Yes, I think those of us who've played through a valve amp with a spring tank have experience of the "Spra - boing" effect!!

Nice expanation man - thank you! Now, just to throw a spanner at you... i was once told, or read, than the reverb in a spring tank was effected because the 'wet' signal - the one going thru the tank - was delayed ever so slightly from the 'dry' signal and that the electrical impulse that is the sound therefore has further to travel, ie through 2 huge feck-off springs? Is that also correct (ish)?

[grogg]

Kind of. What happens is the signal gets fed to something that mechanically actuates the spring at one end, a pickup at the other end converts the spring's movement back to an electrical signal which has now been modulated by the spring. This is then mixed back in with the original signal.
There will be a delay in the mechanical propagation down the spring but there will also be a ringing caused by the natural resonance of the spring. This latter bit I think is more important in producing the desired modulation.
The ringing/resonance of the spring is normally well below audio frequencies so basically you kind of get the original signal back several times as the spring bounces around.

[corsair]

Champion; thanks bro!!

[norfolkngood]

Bloody hell, am I on a steep learning curve here.

I use a Marshall DFX amp + a Washburn Bad Dog distortion pedal; is there any way I can replicate the "mechanical" effect of a string reverb?

[DuoFuzz]

There is several companies that make reverb pedals, Boss make a good one but it's pricey. Nearly all of these are digital pedals though, no actual springs - boo!

I do know of one pedal with proper spring, the Danelectro DSR-1 Spring King. I got a silverface Fender Champ but wanted that reverb sound, so I tried one of these. I only used if for awhile then moved on to some other small valve amps with spring tanks in them. From what I remember It was OK but the controls were a bit weak.

I could never get a long deep delayed reverb from it but because of it's size, the springs are probably to short. That said it's still a fun pedal and it even has a kick pad, boot this and you get that "kicked over amp" boom!

Beyond that your onto the valve powered Fender Reverb unit, this is the real deal but it's mega bucks. There are some copy's, Guyatone for one, but I've never seen or heard one first hand to know what it's like?

DAN.

[nasticanasta]

Lexicon Alex is pretty versatile..it's a rack mount

There is several companies that make reverb pedals, Boss make a good one but it's pricey. Nearly all of these are digital pedals though, no actual springs - boo!

I do know of one pedal with proper spring, the Danelectro DSR-1 Spring King. I got a silverface Fender Champ but wanted that reverb sound, so I tried one of these. I only used if for awhile then moved on to some other small valve amps with spring tanks in them. From what I remember It was OK but the controls were a bit weak.

I could never get a long deep delayed reverb from it but because of it's size, the springs are probably to short. That said it's still a fun pedal and it even has a kick pad, boot this and you get that "kicked over amp" boom!

Beyond that your onto the valve powered Fender Reverb unit, this is the real deal but it's mega bucks. There are some copy's, Guyatone for one, but I've never seen or heard one first hand to know what it's like?

DAN.

[corsair]

I have, and used up until I stopped gigging, a Boss RV-3 quite often through my wee amp which had no tank and found it to be very acceptable indeed; I even used it on a PA from time to time as an echo/reverb for vocals; you can just tell it's digital when it's at the extreme parameters, but overall a very good, simple - very important, that!! - effect..

yeah, the Lexicon stuff is, or used to be great gear "in the old days" if a bit pricey for struggling musos; I had a rack setup long ago and hated it; far too complex for this Luddite and went back to stompboxes on the floor...

I do love the huge swampy feel you can get with a spring tank,though and I don't think you can get that any other way....

[nasticanasta]

The Lexicon ALEX was the best one I came across for affordable rack with delay.....you can probably get one for less than 30 off Ebay. It does Echo/Delay/Chorus/flange

I have, and used up until I stopped gigging, a Boss RV-3 quite often through my wee amp which had no tank and found it to be very acceptable indeed; I even used it on a PA from time to time as an echo/reverb for vocals; you can just tell it's digital when it's at the extreme parameters, but overall a very good, simple - very important, that!! - effect..

yeah, the Lexicon stuff is, or used to be great gear "in the old days" if a bit pricey for struggling musos; I had a rack setup long ago and hated it; far too complex for this Luddite and went back to stompboxes on the floor...

I do love the huge swampy feel you can get with a spring tank,though and I don't think you can get that any other way....