Re: Re-fret of a Pantera (or any Rosewood/Ebony neck)

[Barry]

Great stuff! Love to see some pix when ya got 'em.
I have a couple of Mats (including my latest one) that really need some work. I dunno if I'd be able to tackle it with my current set up, or lack of it, but I'm glad you were.

[Racing]

Cool!

If you ordered it bulk three strips of one foot will suffice and then some.

Let me know if you get caught on anything and i´ll try to help out.

[Barry]

Hi Jesper, I know you made brief reference to Maple fret boards at the beginning of this post, but I can't recall if you or anyone else has discussed the problems of re-fretting that type of wood. I assume the main difficulty is that more force is needed to remove the frets and it splits easily??
If so how do you approach it?

[Racing]

Nah.
Not really.
The culprit with maple necks is the top coat.
As most maple necks are painted complete with frets and all it´s good practice to use a razorblade to cut the paint across the lenght of each fret before pulling them.

[Barry]

Oh.

[tpresley]

Jesper, you are the MAN! Fantastic info for everyone!

I've used the Don Teeter method for refretting on some of the Pantera models with the Ebony necks. Works great but much more complicated than your description.

One thing that you have to watch out for is the over-action of the truss system. I've seen some guys separate the fingerboard from the neck because, when pulling the strings AND the frets, the fingerboard is what is really providing positive tension - the neck tries to reverse bow and a conflict torque applies. When the new frets are applied - fatter tangs, the fingerboard is actually forced in reverse torque due to the "wedging" action of the tangs. Result, fingerboad pops loose in spots. Fix? Loosen the truss a little at a time to prevent over reverse bowing the neck.

Great post. Now I know where to get a decent fret job in the future!

Tom

[Barry]

Jesper, you are the MAN! Fantastic info for everyone!...

High praise indeed! And well deserved.
Jesper is held in very high regard for both his talent and his generous contributions both here and the Matsumoku forum.

[grogg]

Jesper,
Im amazed you crowned the frets with a flat file and didnt damage the wood. Your technique must be very precise. Nice job..

[anaerobe]

Glad these notes have achieved sticky status... tremendous information.

[Racing]

Grogg.
No.
I use a fretfile
A fretfile has a radius cut in on respective short side.

These come in various forms and diameters.
Most common ones for what we do here is 1,2 and 3mm.
Normaly refered to as small,medium and large.
The one i by far use the most is the mediums.

When done with the recrowning i dress the file with very fine grit emery.
Normaly like 1200,but then on the other hand i also work the entire fretboard with rubbing compound and a buffer after that-Ie,the rubbing works like an approx 2000-3000 grit.
End result is frets that are so smooth you´ve never experienced anything like it.
I guarantee.

[danagos]

Racing that was an inspiring series of posts, I'm impressed with your skills & generosity.

I stayed up WAY later than intended reading over your comments and studying the pics.

Thanks so much,

dan

[cnevins]

Jesper,

Can you briefly explain the theory behind the slope on the pickup side of the 12th fret, that you referred to above. I'm trying to visualize this and it ain't happening. I think truing this up on my prestige 150 may take care of the fret buzz that's ailing her. Thanks for your informational investment in here!

chris

[Racing]

I´d be happy to.

It all comes down to geometry and the basic understanding of string oscillation.
To make you understand that,regard the guitar fretboard and stringpack from the player POW so to say. From the side for lack of better description.
Strings are suspended at each end-one being the upper nut and the other being the bridge saddles.
Now,no matter how and where you strike the string the utmost margin of movement will be a given specific point just shy of halvways as far as oscillation goes.
This will in turn be the point of need for greatest leeway not to create fretbuzz,and this is what we compensate for by cutting slope.
That coupled with the fact that most guitars can not be adjusted down there as the trussrod anchor sits in such a position that trussrod adjustment doesn´t alter neck movement in those places.

Easy as that.

Likewise.
High E will require less leeway than low E due to oscillation. Also rather easy to grasp i guess.(Low E "moves around" more than high E as a matter of inherent physics)

It is to the point where you COULD cut the low end strings from say fret 14/15 or so and up harder/lower than the high E side...but mostly you don´t as a mere well done fret level job will let you get the stringpack as low as anybody´d want it anyways.(Ie;cut a "twist" into the upper frets)

Some might reason that they don´t fool around with low stringpack heights so why bother.
Weeeeeeell....
Even so the truth of the matter is that fretbuzz,which is really mechanical contact between the string and fret,will happen WAY before the human ear can hear it and as such hinder string performance. It will affect tone as well as sustain. As such a fretlevel job will make wonders for tone and sustain EVEN IF you like me use a medium height stringpack when playing-and this to the point where it is an eye opener.

[cnevins]

Jesper-

Yes that makes total sense! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with all of us. This treasure trove of information will be a valuable reference for those fortunate enough to happen upon it. Thanks again!

Chris

[marktigere1]

Thank you for an excellent thread.

I started the re-fret of my 86 Thunder 1 this weekend.

Having pulled the frets, sanded the fingerboard, inserted the new frets I can state the best single purchase for the job was my fret cleaning saw.

Got this one: http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/Tools-for-Guitar-Making/Luthier-Files-Knives-and-Saws/919-Fret-Slot-Cleaning-Saw-Single/flypage-ask.tpl.html

I'm not affiliated with Tonetech just a satifsfied customer before anyone asks and whilst this is expensive for a single tool, the fret slots were like new when I had finished using this

Regarding the re-fret, it has taken me over a year to build up the courage to do it, but as the Thunder has been with me for 26 years, I wanted to be the one to look after her (how lame ) and learn to maintain her myself. So far so good.

Great thread and I'll let you know how it turns out. Just need to dress and level the frets now.

Cheers

Mark

[marktigere1]

Finished this weekend

Many thanks for the thread which gave me the confidence to do the job.

Things I learnt:

1. To take my time.
2. To use a fret cleaning saw. Did a superb job of cleaning out the fret slots.
3. To remember that the crowning file works in one direction only and clean out the teeth after each fret. This prevented scoring the new fret with swarf stuck in the teeth.
4. I cut the slope into the frets rather than the fingerboard. My only reason being I am an amateur and putting new frets in is easier than sorting out the fingerboard if I stuff it up. Works great with no fret buzzing
5. You don't need expensive tools. My fret clippers were a ground flat pair of cheap wire cutters. Cut flush with the edge of the finger board and did the job well.
6. I used a few walnuts to oil the fingerboard. Came up like new, well pleased with the finish and I got to eat the remaining nuts (don't eat the ones being used on the fingerboard )

So again, many thanks for all the information which I followed to the letter (except cutting in the slope which I did on the frets). My Thunder 1 plays as good as new.

Cheers

Mark

[Barry]

Terrific Mark!
Yessir, our favourite Viking is the dog's bollox when it comes to this stuff...he's also a wiz with old tube amps in case you're leaning that way too!
Hey, now how about some pix?

[marktigere1]

Hi Barry

Yes pictures on the way.

Funnily enough I am maintaining a 1955 Broadway tube amp. Changed a blown bias cap and about to replace the output caps as they are showing their age as well.

Wonderful sound. Will get a picture up of this as well although maybe not in this thread.

Cheers

Mark

[Racing]

[grogg]

Encouraged by Jesper's tutorials Im going for it as well on my T1 bass body project.
Am trying the Jescar FW47104 EVO Gold fretwire mainly because I read a luthier raving about them on the web but also because they match the colour of the brass.

[Westbone]

Refretting a neck that is barely worn at all???? Still, it's yours now. Change the machine heads to match as well. Go the whole hog.