Where's the For Sale + Ebay list gone?

[norfolkngood]

Admin or Polly... something's missing!

What's happened to the list of guitars for sale, Ebay links etc? I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms here

[DreamRaven]

You mean this?

http://forum.westoneguitars.net/for-sale-ebay-craigslist-trademe-etc-f5/

Been there the whole time, no?

[norfolkngood]

S'weird.

It's back now but the list of forums on screen went from "wanted" to "members' Westones." I've been thinking that maybe there's room for a Fender in my life, so I'll put it down to a warning from the Matsumoku gods!

[sarcaster]

I noticed it was not listed yesterday as well. Once I signed in it was there so just a temporary glitch I assume.

[corsair]

I've been thinking that maybe there's room for a Fender in my life,

Of course there is!! I'm betting most have had or still have a Fender of some sort!!

[Administrator]

Hi folks,
The for sale forum went members only the other day. If I could I would make it invisible to members with less that 20 posts to stop people just registering to post their ebay auctions.

[THEBARRON]

Good call Admin,
Cheers,
Richie..

[Frenchy]

Makes a lot of sense admin....

P.

[corsair]

Good work; boy, do I have a lot to learn!!!

[Guest]

Struck me as a bit surreal, the ebay/for sales forum has been made invisible to stop people posting about things for sale on ebay....

Quite possibly I just don't see the problem - looking at who has started threads there over the last few months, it seems that two people per month make their first (And sometimes only) posts there. Sometimes three per month. I don't see how that's a problem.

I can see a couple of problems with making it invisible to anyone who isn't signed in. The vast majority of forum users are not registered. If you look at the figures at the bottom of the front page, there are typically four to five times more unregistered users than registered ones at any given time - people who are just reading for information, and this is cutting off a potentially valuable source for them.

It may have a knock-on effect on people who post about wanting particular guitars, like the X390/350, Prestige 250 etc. They will be far less likely to get replies if people can't see their posts - the vast majority of Westones are owned by non-members.

Add to that it may be self defeating - I think it's likely that the two or three people a month who just join to post about selling their guitars will just do it anyway, either in the general forum or the ebay one if they spot it..

[Barry]

Sorry Neil, I would tend to agree with Thorn on this one.

[Administrator]

I'm afraid I do not agree at all.

The eBay/for sale forum is a place to give a "heads up" to existing members to interesting guitars they come across, or cherished guitars that they wish to try selling privately to their fellow enthusiasts. I really couldn't care less if someone who can't be bothered to join the forums misses out on a great bargain spotted by a regular member. If they want to see the goodies then they should register and say hello.

The Wanted forum is not restricted to members only - precisely because i wanted non-members to see those posts and encourage them to join.

The one or two people who register to post Westone guitars may still register, which is fine, it's all the ones you don't get to see who are the problem. Not only that, but if someone registers to post their eBay item we've probably already seen it.

On another guitar forum that I post on, only members who have over 50 posts can see the sale and wanted forums, and what has developed there is an excellent trading post for enthusiasts, with pretty much everyone knowing and trusting who they are trading with. Members often openly offer items for free to each other - such as bridges, pickups, etc just because they have built up a rapport.

Anyway, it's all rather moot as I am officially giving up being the admin of these forums, so if the new Mods/Owners agree with you then it'll be changed back! :-).

[Guest]

I'm afraid I do not agree at all.

The eBay/for sale forum is a place to give a "heads up" to existing members to interesting guitars they come across, or cherished guitars that they wish to try selling privately to their fellow enthusiasts. I really couldn't care less if someone who can't be bothered to join the forums misses out on a great bargain spotted by a regular member. If they want to see the goodies then they should register and say hello.

It might help if they had any way of knowing there was a hidden forum - when I'm not signed in, there's no sign that there is a members only bit, never mind any hint as to what it contains.

The thought of a members only forum - which would (As shown by the three cases this week of 'not as described' guitars on ebay) be very useful to general non registered member forum browsers - where only registered, signed in members can see the goodies, or the warning signs of what to avoid,is anathema to me. Possibly that's just me, since I've done a site for the benefit of absolutely anyone with any interest in Westones, however passing or ephemeral. Probably colours my judgement somewhat, I just can't imagine making any part of that an exclusive members only club.

Then again, it might be the figures... by the time you're on page four of the member list, you're on people who have not logged into the forums for over 6 months. If you have figures on the last time anyone posted, there's maybe... guessing here, 12 to 15 regular posters?
Personally, I can't see the point in posting heads ups or warnings for so few people. Caveat emptor.

[bowenjaybee]

such a strange debate coming from the Westone info site man and the Westone forum admin.................. So why don't you both keep your Westone knowledge to yourselves keep it all private then no one else would know about these great guitars and you could both have the biggest collection of Westones in the world... just a thought!

[norfolkngood]

... and also two of the most knowledgeable people on here, whose posts (and Thorn's Westone.info site) have been invaluable to me.

Having kicked this thread off I've been sitting on the fence.

If I happen to visit the site from work whilst stuffing my face at lunchtime, I don't log in. Hence the original post when the thread didn't appear. My home computer automatically logs me in under my user name so the for sale + ebay forum appears.

Having seen some of the recent posts about mis-described Westones on UK ebay and the unauthorised use of photos from the Westone.info site. I go with keeping the thread open to all. Having said that, my real worry is that there looks to be a bigger issue if people are falling out on here. I'm a member of a few other forums, mainly guitars or cars, and I've seen too many sites go wonky when members start arguing.

I thought acoustic players were gentle souls until someone was called a "troll" on the Washburn forums. Jee-sus, it was "my other hobby involves a range and .45 ammo and best you take that back... y'all."

I guess Polly has stood down as mod so we could be mod-less and admin-less, unless you guys know something I don't? It's not worth the grief guys, can we move on... please?

Rog

[Administrator]

Well we could go round in circles all night with this... The forum will never expand if there is no good reason to register, and if people who could make a contribution, however small, don't bother then eventually the forum will just die out. It's not about creating exclusivity, it's about creating a community of westone fans.

However, I take on board the comments about the dodgy eBay listings.

This site gets a lot of traffic, and the whole operation needs managing and improving, with regular updates from the admin and mods. This is an area where i have been lacking, and one of the reasons why i am giving up the role. Someone else needs to show the forum some love and attention.

Putting up a notice that there is a For Sale section is one among many that need to be done.

Anyway, as mentioned, I'm i now merely a caretaker of the technical side until someone with the skills steps up to the plate. I think Polly is taking a bit of time out from the forums, but luckily, our top man corsair is taking care of Mod duties (although if he's reading this he is probably having second thoughts!).

There is no problem with people falling out, at least as far as i am concerned. It's just a debate, and it's nice to see people get involved in it.

[corsair]

Hear hear! Thorn brings his experience of running a forum to the table and as such, his input is valued and valuable; that's not to say that everyone has to agree with him, as I'm sure he's happy with!!

As for the mod and Admin duties, I'm quite prepared to give it a shot and have in fact, as Neil says, thrown my hat into the ring. However, and this is a big one, I cannot, and possibly will not, do it on my own and would like for one or two of the other regular posters to lend a hand as a mod as well. There is someone else giving me a hand "behind the scenes" and I am most grateful for that, so all we need is a couple of 'someone elses' to help out and we can move forward from here; there is a question here, too, that if no-one does step up, then the forum will wither and die, as my family are moving about the world and there will be times in the not-too-distant future when I shall be out of touch for considerable amounts of time.... you have been warned!!

And lastly, Neil, well done for setting this up and hopefully you will still be around, not only in a technical capacity, but as a contributor to the ongoing Westone knowledge fund!!

[Guest]

As Neil said, there's no question of falling out here, it's just a debate. I'd be quite happy to see alternate viewpoints as well - I've done a bit of devils advocacy here, but no doubt there are things / other approaches I haven't thought of

[caucajun]

If they want to see the goodies then they should register and say hello.

that's what the "free porn " site said..............i ain't fallin' for THAT one.....again......

[Pollyanna]

...

I guess Polly has stood down as mod so we could be mod-less and admin-less, unless you guys know something I don't? It's not worth the grief guys, can we move on... please?

Rog

Says Who????

I haven't stepped down or handed the reins over to anybody else, nor have I kicked the bucket either!

Reading through this thread I have to say that there are certain aspects which I agree and disagree with (and I'm not saying what's what, so there!) I did exactly the same as you did Roger, noticed something was missing when I wasn't logged in so I did the most logical thing and logged in!

Regarding the people who join the forums just to sell their unwanted guitars in the hope of making a fast buck by saving on eBay fees, really gets my back up. You may recall one such incident a while ago where I had politely informed a particular member, who had joined solely for that purpose, and who blatantly flouted the forum rules by refusing to conduct any private sales through the Private Messaging service. Instead of complying with the rules of the forum he hurled a barrage of insults at me for removing his post. Needless to say this member was removed from the forums and in my opinion, it was good riddance to bad rubbish! We can certainly do without that sort of member!

On a completely different note:
Does anyone happen to know why everything on here has reverted to HTML, or is it just my computer? Whatever it is, it's bloody annoying especially when I try to put smilies in because they all go to the the end of what I have written!

Polly